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Post by Matt_Albion on Aug 7, 2012 15:02:39 GMT
It's 2012.
The Smiths are about as relevant as that Thatcher thread.
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Post by Kiskos on Aug 7, 2012 15:05:32 GMT
I gather he now lives in the USA. Probably the most jingoistic country on the planet where people have flagpoles on their front lawn just to celebrate being able to walk and fart at the same time.
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Post by johnnyrep on Aug 7, 2012 16:07:47 GMT
I gather he now lives in the USA. Probably the most jingoistic country on the planet where people have flagpoles on their front lawn just to celebrate being able to walk and fart at the same time. If this were a Limpic sport and included going up the stairs , guaranteed gold for team GB. Minimal funding. Stand clear at the podium.
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Post by Malcolm Tucker on Aug 7, 2012 23:29:10 GMT
The fact people are still talking about them and this generation listens to them tells you more about their quality than their chart position in the 80s/90s Can you define who "this" generation is that's listening to the Smiths? Presumably we're talking kids born in the 70's early 80's; who are the same conservative generation of sixth form poets and wet blankets. I don't buy that there is a new generation of Smiths fans at all. Born in 1992. I don't know many people who don't like them
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Post by Fulham Fallout on Aug 8, 2012 6:04:37 GMT
Did your parents have Smiths records?
Maybe this is the case as it is with a new generation of deep puple, sabbath fans etc who got into that music as their parents were still listening to it.
Just a thought
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Bibbel
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Post by Bibbel on Aug 8, 2012 7:11:01 GMT
Morrissey has made a post musical career out of being a contrarian.
However, and as I tried to demostrate in my earlier post (patriotism>devotion>zealousness), there's a grain in what he says though the example is extreme and offends Godwin's Law
Watching athletes of any nationality excel is wonderful; watching winning athletes draping themselves in national symbols grates - even though the funding, etc. for their performances may come from national sports admin. regimes.
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Fido
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Post by Fido on Aug 8, 2012 7:18:23 GMT
Morrissey has made a post musical career out of being a contrarian. However, and as I tried to demostrate in my earlier post (patriotism>devotion>zealousness), there's a grain in what he says though the example is extreme and offends Godwin's Law Watching athletes of any nationality excel is wonderful; watching winning athletes draping themselves in national symbols grates - even though the funding, etc. for their performances may come from national sports admin. regimes. Having Olympics without national symbols reminds me a bit of that Baddiel and whatsisname's sketch about how pointless horse racing would be without betting. Morrissey's comment is about as tenuous as me being called a racist because I like Robertson's jam and they used to have a gollywog on the side of the jar.
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Bibbel
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Post by Bibbel on Aug 8, 2012 7:23:22 GMT
It's not so much the symbols, but the fetishisation of them. Draped in the flag athletes literally become the embodiment of an agressive and triumphant nationalism. And flags seem to be thrown to them so that they can complete their ritual enshroudment in a national family.
Fuggin etc.
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 8, 2012 7:27:03 GMT
You mean like this?
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Fido
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Post by Fido on Aug 8, 2012 7:29:03 GMT
It's not so much the symbols, but the fetishisation of them. Draped in the flag athletes literally become the embodiment of an agressive and triumphant nationalism. And flags seem to be thrown to them so that they can complete their ritual enshroudment in a national family. Fuggin etc. Triumphant, yes, and that's fine; aggressive, I don't see it. I think any negative you find from this image must be negated by how tight the international athletic community is and how much respect they have for each other after competition. Better a battle on the track or field than a war on foreign soil...
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Camp Freddy
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Post by Camp Freddy on Aug 8, 2012 7:36:18 GMT
You mean like this? To be fair Moz probably remembers well how the press laid into him as a racist for doing that.
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 8, 2012 7:37:43 GMT
To be fair Moz probably remembers well how the press laid into him as a racist for doing that. It would be wonderfully ironic if that was the case.
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Jammin
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Post by Jammin on Aug 8, 2012 7:41:36 GMT
Can you define who "this" generation is that's listening to the Smiths? Presumably we're talking kids born in the 70's early 80's; who are the same conservative generation of sixth form poets and wet blankets. I don't buy that there is a new generation of Smiths fans at all. Born in 1992. I don't know many people who don't like them Good grief. Another generation of fey moping fops. It's like the 2nd Summer of Love never happened.
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 8, 2012 8:00:43 GMT
I was born in 77. Parents were mods and had no interest in The Smiffs but I'd still say I was... well a 'fan' is too strong a term... an 'enjoyer'?
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Jammin
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Post by Jammin on Aug 8, 2012 8:02:40 GMT
I was born in 77. Parents were mods and had no interest in The Smiffs but I'd still say I was... well a 'fan' is too strong a term... an 'enjoyer'? [Unfollows]
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Fido
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Post by Fido on Aug 8, 2012 8:06:21 GMT
I was born in 77. Parents were mods and had no interest in The Smiffs but I'd still say I was... well a 'fan' is too strong a term... an 'enjoyer'? To me, an "enjoyer" sounds like someone who takes it up the arse but doesn't consider themselves gay.
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Post by ChasetownBaggie on Aug 8, 2012 10:10:11 GMT
The irony of this debate is that Morrissey is defined by England and Manchester, both of which he has left behind. If you took time to read some of his lyrics you'd see he does love this country but, like many people, there are aspects of it which exasperate him and detests.
I've re-read his comments and tbh, I think it's more a rant against the monarchy (which he's always been consistent on) and the cult of the leader (hence the allusion to Nazi Germany).
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PK
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Post by PK on Aug 8, 2012 10:27:22 GMT
I was born in 77. Parents were mods and had no interest in The Smiffs but I'd still say I was... well a 'fan' is too strong a term... an 'enjoyer'? To me, an "enjoyer" sounds like someone who takes it up the arse but doesn't consider themselves gay. Arf
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Post by boingingjim on Aug 8, 2012 10:36:21 GMT
Having two weeks ago been in Manchester with 10,000 other Moz fans watching him at the MEN I can safely say it was a great night.
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Post by boingingjim on Aug 8, 2012 10:37:31 GMT
... and Suffer Little Children is the best song ever written.
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PK
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Post by PK on Aug 8, 2012 10:38:07 GMT
How was the jump off the cliff?
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Post by boingingjim on Aug 8, 2012 10:44:39 GMT
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Post by The Nation of Ulysses on Aug 8, 2012 10:45:33 GMT
It's 2012. The Smiths are about as relevant as that Thatcher thread. Ok, if we're playing by these rules (which is fine by me) CAN EVERYBODY STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE BEATLES. Cheers.
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Post by Matt_Albion on Aug 9, 2012 10:05:59 GMT
It's 2012. The Smiths are about as relevant as that Thatcher thread. Ok, if we're playing by these rules (which is fine by me) CAN EVERYBODY STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE BEATLES. Cheers. Nothing would make me happier...
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Post by cunninghamismagic on Aug 9, 2012 10:11:44 GMT
It's not so much the symbols, but the fetishisation of them. Draped in the flag athletes literally become the embodiment of an agressive and triumphant nationalism. And flags seem to be thrown to them so that they can complete their ritual enshroudment in a national family. Fuggin etc. This a wind up? All I can see at the moment are happy faces & pride in our country. Give me that any day. Beats the doom & gloom we often get.
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Bibbel
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Post by Bibbel on Aug 9, 2012 10:34:52 GMT
I didn't mention "our" or "your" country but was generalising. It's not a wind up, but a corrective observation to the gleefest that the Olympics have become. And unlike the anthems and flags and euphoria it's not being rammed down your throat 24/7.
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Post by solihull_throstle on Aug 9, 2012 10:39:45 GMT
Our athletes have done us proud, we have every right to be proud of them.
However, there is a side that I am a lttle uncomfortable with, personally. The jingoism has gne a little too far in my own humble opinion.
I see that that complete arse Cameron is milking it as much a spossible whilst he arranges the sale of more school playing fields!
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Post by The Nation of Ulysses on Aug 9, 2012 10:59:05 GMT
Our athletes have done us proud, we have every right to be proud of them. However, there is a side that I am a lttle uncomfortable with, personally. The jingoism has gne a little too far in my own humble opinion. I see that that complete arse Cameron is milking it as much a spossible whilst he arranges the sale of more school playing fields! I may not be noticing, but I have to admit I've not seen any of the jingoism which, I admit, puts me off Remembrance Sunday parades, St George's Day and major football tournaments. I don't know whether it's because the sports are more complex or what, but this is what I would call positive patriotism. So, more of it please. I wonder whether there might be a bit of a hangover coming once the party is over.
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Post by Shabby Russian on Aug 9, 2012 11:01:29 GMT
Our athletes have done us proud, we have every right to be proud of them. However, there is a side that I am a lttle uncomfortable with, personally. The jingoism has gne a little too far in my own humble opinion. I see that that complete arse Cameron is milking it as much a spossible whilst he arranges the sale of more school playing fields! I sort of agree with this - possibley not the Cameron bit, although you could substitute Johnson for Cameron. Think overall the actual sport and the atheletes have transcended any excessive jingoism shown by the media. Overall been a really enjoyable event.
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Post by Totally Tropical Tiesto on Aug 9, 2012 11:03:16 GMT
I see nothing but positives - Good, competitive sport with a good natured crowd mingling together whoever they happen to be supporting and showing appreciation for any athlete who does well regardless of which country they represent.
It's nothing like football because it doesn't have the tribal/parochial nature, i don't think that makes it better or worse, simply different.
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