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Post by chingachgook on Aug 7, 2012 10:02:23 GMT
I don't think Scargill helped matters now did he? It seemed not at the time. Though he read Thatcher's intentions in destroying the industry correctly and in the impact it would have on the mining communities. If only we had listened.
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Post by Totally Tropical Tiesto on Aug 7, 2012 10:22:32 GMT
I don't think Scargill helped matters now did he? It seemed not at the time. Though he read Thatcher's intentions in destroying the industry correctly and in the impact it would have on the mining communities. If only we had listened. Funny how he is now pretty much universally hated in the towns he claimed to represent. He could of sorted it out but chose to carry on in his personal battle.
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Post by Prothero on Aug 7, 2012 10:34:56 GMT
So it was sad that the miners were made the enemy by Thatcher. Just one area of industry hit unnecessarily hard by Thatcher for ideological reasons which failed dreadfully, the social cost of which we still suffer from in dysfunctional communities across the UK. Given that the miners were trying to hold the country to ransom (again), bring down a democratically elected government (again), without having had a ballot (again) were stopping people and businesses going about their lawful business (again) and this time even managed to murder an innocent taxi driver I'd suggest that they were the enemies of pretty much all of us. I've just spent the weekend in Doncaster where Scargill and his acolytes are utterly loathed by the ex-mining side of my wifes family. The Left despises Thatcher simply because she would not give in to industrial blackmail like her yellow bellied predecessors Callaghan, Wilson & Heath.
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 7, 2012 10:46:56 GMT
The Left despises Thatcher simply because she would not give in to industrial blackmail like her yellow bellied predecessors Callaghan, Wilson & Heath. That's not true though is it?
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Post by Abelard Snazz on Aug 7, 2012 10:49:25 GMT
You're right that the Left despises Thatcher, but you're wrong that it's simply a case of her failing to give into industrial blackmail. We don't need to rehearse everybody's arguments against you here, but I'd like to point something out that is quite interesting to me. You said somewhere earlier that your old man was one of the few industrial workers who were made unemployed but then got on their bike and set up a business. This of course, makes your Dad -- and by extension, you -- one of the winners in the Thatcherite economy.
By definition, the private sector has to have winners and losers. Not every unemployed worker had the opportunities, skills and luck that your father did. Not all of them could have succeeded in business because, simply, that is the way that business works. Now, what should we do with those people on the scrap heap? Thatcher's notion was to make unemployment such a horrific experience that they'd have to -- and be grateful to -- take any job that comes along.
Problem is that in many of those areas (South Wales being a prime example) there simply wasn't the infrastructure there to support it. And with the Thatcher government's cuts to education, etc. it meant that there weren't the opportunities for all of the unemployed to get the breaks that your Dad did. (Plus there is the fact that the government massaged the unemployment figures in the late 1980s by putting thousands upon thousands of ex-miners on the sick -- and with the lack of employment opportunities open to them, why would they turn that down?) Had your father not been one of the winners, I doubt that you'd feel the same.
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Post by Kiskos on Aug 7, 2012 10:53:11 GMT
Herbert Morrison who, as Acting Prime Minister, was faced with the decision of whether to join the European Coal and Steel Community (a precursor to the EU). When a civil servant pressed him for an answer, Morrison had no doubt. ‘The Durham miners won’t wear it’ he said, thereby sealing Britain’s fate on the periphery of the integrationist project for a generation.
Democracy in action.
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PK
played a blider!
Posts: 7,721
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Post by PK on Aug 7, 2012 11:00:56 GMT
A fitting last word for this Fred. See what you've fucking started?!
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Post by Totally Tropical Tiesto on Aug 7, 2012 11:01:46 GMT
A fitting last word for this Fred. See what you've fucking started?! Nearly SIX!
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 7, 2012 11:10:52 GMT
See what you've fucking started?! Nearly SIX! Ah! You've cursed it now mon.
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Post by Prothero on Aug 7, 2012 11:14:48 GMT
You're right that the Left despises Thatcher, but you're wrong that it's simply a case of her failing to give into industrial blackmail. We don't need to rehearse everybody's arguments against you here, but I'd like to point something out that is quite interesting to me. You said somewhere earlier that your old man was one of the few industrial workers who were made unemployed but then got on their bike and set up a business. This of course, makes your Dad -- and by extension, you -- one of the winners in the Thatcherite economy. By definition, the private sector has to have winners and losers. Not every unemployed worker had the opportunities, skills and luck that your father did. Not all of them could have succeeded in business because, simply, that is the way that business works. Now, what should we do with those people on the scrap heap? Thatcher's notion was to make unemployment such a horrific experience that they'd have to -- and be grateful to -- take any job that comes along. Problem is that in many of those areas (South Wales being a prime example) there simply wasn't the infrastructure there to support it. And with the Thatcher government's cuts to education, etc. it meant that there weren't the opportunities for all of the unemployed to get the breaks that your Dad did. (Plus there is the fact that the government massaged the unemployment figures in the late 1980s by putting thousands upon thousands of ex-miners on the sick -- and with the lack of employment opportunities open to them, why would they turn that down?) Had your father not been one of the winners, I doubt that you'd feel the same. I don't agree, which won't surprise you. Being made redundant was the biggest shock of my father's life, as well as for the other 800 or so who went at the same time. Where he had worked was more like a community than a workplace, as was much of manufacturing industry. As such, they all tended to stay in touch. Pretty much without exception his close colleagues found similar employment, or started businesses, or changed career. As I've said before the State shouldn't stand behind moribund businesses to maintain employment. Competition and comparative advantage overseas will ensure failure eventually. When the banking sector failed spectacularly the state stepped behind the banks. If we had let one or two go to the wall, perhaps we wouldn't be in the state we're in now. The banking collapse led directly to my redundancy - not necessarily a shock for me, but with a mortgage and a pregnant wife (also being made redundant) it wasn't the most fun experience. I never expected the State to provide for me or my family - that's my job. Just like my father and his ex-colleagues I got on with it. I'm happier running my own business, I earn more, I have more control over my life. What happens after you lose your job is entirely within your own hands - and I think unemployment is and should be a pretty horrific state to be in and one that you want to get out of PDQ.
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Post by The Nation of Ulysses on Aug 7, 2012 11:29:24 GMT
A fitting last word for this Fred. See what you've fucking started?! <Hides Jerry can behind back and slowly walks away whistling innocently>
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Post by bobmonkhouseclique on Aug 7, 2012 21:46:57 GMT
Yes but is she bloody well dead yet?
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Post by Prothero on Aug 7, 2012 21:49:56 GMT
Yes but is she bloody well dead yet? Arf. Is that six yet?
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Post by bobmonkhouseclique on Aug 7, 2012 21:52:33 GMT
We'll all be dead if this keeps up much longer Chasing the no heels record here
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Post by jezstatham on Aug 7, 2012 22:55:13 GMT
i bet she was great in the sack though.i used to have a bit of a thing for her.and half the male tories did as well apparently!!!
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Post by albionpeej on Aug 7, 2012 23:15:58 GMT
As I've said before the State shouldn't stand behind moribund businesses to maintain employment. Competition and comparative advantage overseas will ensure failure eventually. You mean like the way we all have to supplement people on minimum wage with working tax credits because businesses don't pay people enough to live on, yet there are people who STILL want to get rid of the minimum wage.... ... Yeah the State shouldn't stand behind moribund businesses to maintain employment, they should just pay the difference on a living wage on behalf of billion pound companies that makes millions and millions in profits every year. Much more sensible.
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Post by The Nation of Ulysses on Aug 7, 2012 23:35:43 GMT
If she had died during the last week, I believe they'd keep it quiet because of the Olympics.
Or, at the very least, some communications bod will have had to draw up a strategy of dealing with such an eventuality.
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Post by dublinbaggie on Aug 8, 2012 6:08:03 GMT
quote] without having had a ballot (again) Scargill won the ballot - he didn't get 55% as the NUM constitution stated.
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 8, 2012 7:15:38 GMT
This thread's like Terminator 2 - just as you think it's died out it slithers back together with a determined stride towards page 6.
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Bibbel
Message Board Tourettes
Posts: 6,231
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Post by Bibbel on Aug 8, 2012 7:17:34 GMT
<watches liquid metal coalesce>
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 8, 2012 7:23:00 GMT
Who would win in a fight between Thatcher and Terminator 2? I'm reckoning that one touch from the Iron Lady would render the T2 frozen thus replicating the Liquid Nitrogen scene. However T2 would come back like a Socialist from the Future (to save humanity) to destroy the evil/glorious automoton and change history forever.
Terminator 1 Thatcher 0 (and the world dances)
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Bibbel
Message Board Tourettes
Posts: 6,231
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Post by Bibbel on Aug 8, 2012 7:25:09 GMT
Iron Lady vs Titanium Alloy Schwartzie? They'd team up to fugg us all.
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 8, 2012 7:28:50 GMT
Iron Lady vs Titanium Alloy Schwartzie? They'd team up to fugg us all. I reckon Owen Jones would play the wee lad John Connor in the film.
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Camp Freddy
played a blider!
"I do think you might make an effort to keep up with the others"
Posts: 9,592
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Post by Camp Freddy on Aug 8, 2012 7:33:44 GMT
The Terminator is obviously a neo-con.
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Post by Dharma_Albion on Aug 8, 2012 7:35:24 GMT
The Terminator is obviously a neo-con. The first one... probably but I reckon the 2nd one was a Socialist. I didn't watch the 3rd. If I'm honest; I can't really remember the plot to either film I'm just trying to push this thread over the line.
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Camp Freddy
played a blider!
"I do think you might make an effort to keep up with the others"
Posts: 9,592
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Post by Camp Freddy on Aug 8, 2012 7:39:52 GMT
The second Terminator is the slippery and shape-shifter, he's Call Me Dave to Arnie's Maggie.
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Post by Totally Tropical Tiesto on Aug 8, 2012 7:49:38 GMT
As I've said before the State shouldn't stand behind moribund businesses to maintain employment. Competition and comparative advantage overseas will ensure failure eventually. You mean like the way we all have to supplement people on minimum wage with working tax credits because businesses don't pay people enough to live on, yet there are people who STILL want to get rid of the minimum wage.... ... Yeah the State shouldn't stand behind moribund businesses to maintain employment, they should just pay the difference on a living wage on behalf of billion pound companies that makes millions and millions in profits every year. Much more sensible. So on one hand we are mourning the loss of low value manufacturing to countries where labour is cheap and on the other we want companies to pay higher wages. Whilst i get the logic of calling for both they don't exactly meet in the middle.
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Post by Kiskos on Aug 8, 2012 7:50:28 GMT
On the day she dies Nick Clegg will hold a press conference to announce that he is weally weally angwy as there was no milk for his cornflakes at breakfast.
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Post by KG on Aug 8, 2012 8:01:17 GMT
The second Terminator is the slippery and shape-shifter, he's Call Me Dave to Arnie's Maggie. You'd have thought there would have been lots of pictures depicting Maggie as a T-101 but there doesn't appear to be. This is the only effort I could find: Which is a bit shit. Never mind. Have a Thatcher zombie instead:
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Jammin
WBAunofficial lifetime achievement
Posts: 5,783
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Post by Jammin on Aug 8, 2012 8:08:27 GMT
Raymond Briggs was on that tip
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